Let's Talk About Sex - Part Two
The Sunday Age
Sunday December 7, 1997
"Divorce is not in my vocabulary"
Linda *, 32, is married to Michael. They have two children, aged three and five.
I am a housewife and my husband is a self-employed tradesman. We met seven years ago at my place after a friend introduced us. When he first walked in the door, I thought, 'This is the man I am going to marry' - corny but true. He hadn't even said hello.
Three days after we met he moved in. Three weeks later we decided to get married and nine months after we first met, we tied the knot.
I had sex with him two days after we met. It was fantastic. It wasn't the main reason I let him move in but it helped me decide. I thought he was just an amazing man - in his thoughts, ideals and goals. He was everything I thought I would never find. Physically he is divine - muscly, Greek-god material. He had very long, black curly hair. We had excellent communication right from the start. Those first few days together we knew we were going to spend the rest of our lives together because of the way we covered such amazing ground - we both wanted the same things out of our lives.
I had sex with him two days after we met. It was fantastic. It wasn't the main reason I let him move in but it helped me decide. I thought he was just an amazing man - in his thoughts, ideals and goals. He was everything I thought I would never find. Physically he is divine - muscly, Greek-god material. He had very long, black curly hair. We had excellent communication right from the start. Those first few days together we knew we were going to spend the rest of our lives together because of the way we covered such amazing ground - we both wanted the same things out of our lives.
Before I met Michael, my sex life was great, too. There's no way sex should be kept until marriage. Some people are totally incompatible, as I learnt before my marriage. The chemistry may be there but they may have no idea. A guy I was seeing for a while - great chemistry, great body, lovely man - he really had no idea how to please me. He was totally selfish. Oh, I told him. But there was no change. So, if you get married to a man like this, what chance have you of a satisfying love life throughout your marriage?
I think it's fine to have sex with anyone who attracts you - pre-marriage. When I was single I never took the risk with AIDS. I always used a condom once I knew about it. I also had AIDS tests with Michael before we started having unprotected sex. I don't know how many sex partners I've had ... I tried to count them one day and I couldn't (laughter). Ballpark? No idea. It'd be up ... up in the 30s to 40s ... easy (more laughter). I am very experienced. I started having sex when I was 16. I was quite happy to have a fling here and there - meet someone at a party and go home with them. I had an abortion when I was 18. I was a free spirit.I have never given a damn what other people think.
I love the fact that I'm married to a Greek. The sense of family is so ... they have fully embraced me. They will give to us, even when they are in great need themselves. They have filled a gap in my life. My parents divorced when I was 18. My perfect family was suddenly gone - out of the blue, totally unexpected. It took seven years to belong again. When I married I belonged.
Everything changed when I met Michael. We had our daughter within a year of getting married. I've had three abortions since marrying - one before our daughter came along and two this year. They haven't affected my libido though. Sex makes you feel great. It's like after you've had a baby. The endorphins are racing around your body and you're on top of the world. Having an orgasm is like that. It's like wow ... it's such a rush.
With loving sex and Michael there's so much compassion, understanding, the tenderness - he can read me like a book. He knows everything about my body and my mind. Oh, God, we also have straight spur-of-the-moment sex. With two kids you don't have the chance to have loving sex all the time. You just sometimes have to get your rocks off. Spontaneity is great.
Having two small kids is a killer. You're tired. Sometimes when you suffer from post-natal depression sex is the last thing you want. With the demands the children put on you, the last thing you want at the end of the day is someone else hanging off you, wanting you and needing you when all you want is yourself.
Michael is Greek born and has a huge sex drive. So often when I jump into bed all I want to do is read a good book and all Michael wants to do is make love. I really don't want to do that. Once I get into it I think it's fine and he's just over the moon about it. I just don't want to be needed all the time.
My virile Greek god would have sex every day if I let him. Sometimes I just have to say no. It drives me crazy when he wants it every day. I feel so hassled when someone else wants to take from me as well. Often there's just nothing left of me to give him - let alone time for me. Tiredness, a bit of depression, lower self-esteem, lack of iron - they all add up. We're doing it about once or twice a week at the moment. I could probably manage a few more. I am getting the urge back at last after having the children.
When things are a bit dull and our sex life is lagging, I make a nice dinner for just the two of us and sit down and have a good talk about things. We look at our children and realise that's why we're here. It doesn't make me amorous but it's a good start. I look at him then and realise how much I really do love Michael and want him. I am passionate about him but I don't have to have sex with him to feel passionately.
Monogamy is vital to me. If Michael was having an affair he would never see his children again. One night Michael had come home from a buck's night and he emptied the contents of his pockets on to the kitchen bench and went to bed. Next morning I found a girl's name and number written in his handwriting. I went through him like a ton of bricks. We were going through a pretty rough time at that stage. I got it out of him that he was quite attracted to this woman. I can appreciate that but to get her name and number and bring it home was beyond belief. I scared him enough not to do it again. It really hurt me.
Divorce is not part of my vocabulary. I will never hurt my children as my parents hurt me. If he tried to have an affair, he knows the consequences would be enormous. He wouldn't just be letting me down, he'd be letting his children down. It's a Greek approach and I am now Greek. I believe in all that. We'll be together forever. I will not let anything get in the way of that.
"I hope I like sex again soon."
Carmel* is 34 and has been married to Sam, 36, for 10 years. They have three children aged 8, 6, and 3, and last year had counselling to help their marriage.
I am fairly happily married to a very clever man who rules with his head rather than his heart. He is deeply compassionate at one level - say at a universal level - but he isn't able to, or doesn't want to express his love for me. He thinks he does but it's all terribly intellectual, thought-out and planned rather than deeply felt.
I am working part-time in educational publishing and Sam runs his own marketing business. He works long hours, which means we only see each other at the last minute each day. We kind of live in parallel, living separate, busy lives.
We've been through a pretty rough time in the past 12 months but I think things are on the up now. We went to counselling last year. It was a deeply traumatic experience but worthwhile, I think. We sat in this depressing little room trying to unravel 12 years of habits and rituals. I look back on that time and realise I still have this profound love for him which, sadly, I seek from him and am never satisfied. I expressed how I felt - straight from my guts - and he was not able to do so.
We are trying not to be angry with each other now. Our counsellor taught us to think kindly of each other. I was in a bad habit of always looking for faults and selfish behaviour. He has changed a lot and tries to acknowledge my efforts with the kids and our home. The kids are the reason we are still together, I'm sure. For me, anyway.
They are our whole focus when we're all together. We're joyous when all together. Sam and I share precious moments with the kids and I love watching him with them. He is a great dad. I am amazed by his adoration. He'll often look at me, sort of astonished or in awe, when one of the kids makes a great comment. It's beautiful to see.
I am very pleased with both of us, the way we have kept our anguish to ourselves. The children would have very little idea of anything being wrong. We never ever yell at each other or carry on.
I tend to tiptoe around Sam so I don't annoy him or frustrate him. He uses his intellect to argue his way out of anything. Logic is his greatest weapon and often, my gripe isn't based on logic. It drives me insane. Under all this frustration, I really adore him, always have. He's physically extremely attractive. Tall, blonde, charismatic. Other women fall over him but he's usually oblivious.
We had a fantastic sexual relationship when we got together in our early 20s. He has always been very artistic when it comes to love-making. Very thoughtful and considerate. Occasionally he becomes quite passionate, which is surprising when it happens. He has always been completely uninhibited when it comes to screaming out during an orgasm. He doesn't give a stuff. The kids have never said anything ... god knows what they think ... I'm waiting for one of them to come in and ask what terrible thing I've done to Daddy.
Since having the three kids I am pretty much uninterested in making love. I've been a bit depressed, which wipes out your libido. After each child, I was simply not at all interested for well over a year each time. Sam was very patient but became very remote in all other areas of communication. He went into a kind of sulk for months after each birth. I rarely feel like sex but when I do allow Sam to persist, I actually really enjoy it. There's such an energy problem when you work so hard all day on kids, house, other work.
One fundamental but pretty dull problem is the hours we keep. I have always been a morning person. He likes staying up, watching the telly until 12.30am. More often than not we have a little visitor crawl in between us during the night - the best feeling in the world. How do you have a regular sex life with that situation? If he popped home at lunchtime he'd get a pleasant surprise - I usually feel pretty amorous around then.
Recently when we've made love I have visualised other men. It might be Sam Neill or Clint Eastwood. In my mind they are a bit rough and don't care at all about me. I like the fact that I don't have to be involved in the exercise - no emotional energy but a hell of a good physical feeling. I hope I like sex again soon. I really want to be back the way we were before the kids.
"I get frustrated"
Michael, 33, is hoping to become a permanent resident in Australia, having come from London to live with his mum. He is divorced and currently single.
My ex-partner is in London and has remarried. We didn't have any children and were married seven years, on and off.
We married too young. I was 22 when we did it in 1985 and she lied about her age. She was really 18. I was reliable and good but she was a bit wild and anorexic so it was difficult to live with. It was a bad relationship.
We had sex before marriage. She was my first sex partner. Once you've done it you just want it again and again and again.
Sex with my wife was pretty good before we got married until her parents got involved and then my parents, too. She was Greek, you see, and they're not allowed to have sex before marriage. It was a pretty wild sex life. I was a bit kinky.
I was more than a five-minute man. I used to like sex four or five times a day if I had the chance. I like it to last a while. I didn't mind pleasing her but she'd had a strict childhood and didn't know what it was all about. Sex got boring. She lost her fun side.
She was jealous of me, thinking I was having it off with other girls. I was too scared to. It did get a bit violent in the end when she stuck a knife into my leg. That was the last day I was with her. I really thought she would cut my penis off. She couldn't handle any women coming near me. There's only so much of that you can take.
I decided to come to Australia and backpacked through Thailand before arriving. This is a much better country. The women are a lot better over here, friendlier and more down to earth, much better.
I stayed in the Cremorne Point backpackers' in Sydney for 11 months back in 1995. I had two girlfriends, one after the other - seven months and one month. A lot of English kids come over here and go wild in the backpackers' - so far from home, no parents or friends watching their behaviour. They all sort of partner-off. There's a lot of sex. It's wild. I had the girls after me but I waited for the best ones to come along. I'd been made out to be a sort of status symbol and I just waited for the right girl to come along. I got the best. I've been in Australia for two-and-a-half years now. I'm living with my mum at the moment. There used to be two girls living here at my mum's. They were studying bio-mechanics. I never got the opportunity with them because there was always two or three around at a time. It was a bit frustrating. I think they were attracted to me.
Australian girls love my accent. They love the way I say their names. The Aussie men just want to beat me up because of my English accent.
I haven't had any relationships in two-and-a-half years. I get a bit frustrated but there's not much I can do about it. Lots of cold showers. There are too many fantasies to number. To put it realistically, two girls and one bloke would be great. Other guys probably couldn't manage it but I could.
I was going to church for a while. There are loads of church girls and they're pretty nice, church girls. But there's no touch until you're married, is there? I always go looking for church girls. It's pretty easy to find a girl at church. That is, if you want to get married.
"The late '80s was the peak of my sex life"
Michelle, 45, works part time teaching first aid at a TAFE. She has been married twice and has seven children aged between seven and 26. She has slept with around 15 men.
My sex drive goes up and down. I've just had a bout of glandular fever so it was at zero for a while, but it's creeping back up. It's hard for my husband. He'd have it five days a week if he could. But he's pretty good at understanding that just because I don't want it, it isn't personal. In fact, he's better at understanding it than I am when he turns me down. I get quite offended! These days, with the kids, we more-or-less have sex when we can and just hope that we don't get interrupted. The youngest is seven and he walks into our bedroom whenever he feels like it. I like sex to be a nice, quiet time together.
More often than not we give it a go, get interrupted and just give up. It's part and parcel of having a family. When my husband and I were just getting together in the late '80s was the peak of my sex life, I think. Sometimes I wish we could get back to those days. He probably does too.
To be honest I don't really know what I think of the idea of monogamy. In a way I think it's OK to sleep with other people if you don't hurt each other, if neither partner has a problem with it. My husband and I have talked about this. I have had one affair in the time that we've been married. It wasn't a one-off but it didn't last very long either. The man involved was a friend of both my husband's and mine, but he was single. I really wasn't unhappy with my husband at the time, but I'd always wanted to sleep with this man and when the chance came up I thought about it and decided, 'Hang it, I'll do it.'
My husband found out about the affair before it was over. He had his suspicions, he asked me about it and I told him the truth. He asked me, 'Is it finished?' and I told him I thought it was. A few weeks later it was all over.
The funny thing is that we're all still friends. My husband was OK about it because I didn't deny it and the three of us all talked about it openly. There was never any question of me wanting to end my marriage and I'm very lucky that my husband was so cool about it. I have friends who've been through the same thing and say that out of this bad situation came some good - maybe, for example, they were able to sit down and talk about their marriage, where it was going and so on, for the first time in a long time.
If my husband did the same to me, I'd have to accept it, as long as it didn't threaten our marriage. One of the reasons affairs happen is that as we get older we want a bit of spice in our lives. When you're young, you walk that narrow line between safe and unsafe and as you get older you miss that.
"Masturbation plays a very big part in my life"
Peter, 42, is a manager of a direct-marketing house. He has been divorced twice and has two children aged 19 and 20. He is currently single.
Until last Friday night, I hadn't had sex in 12 months. It was fantastic to break the drought. I'm taking her out to dinner this week. My second marriage ended three years ago. My wife just announced one day that she'd left me for someone else. My confidence was pretty much destroyed. For two years afterwards, I wasn't at all interested in looking at anyone else. In the past 12 months, I've started to pick myself up again, and am out there mingling and dating. Six months ago I moved from the suburbs to an apartment in the city centre and now I'm seeing more and more women, but it's not easy to find someone to have a relationship with. I'm amazed that I've mainly been approached by dissatisfied wives who are after an affair or a one-night stand, but I'd never do that. After the way I felt when my wife cheated on me, I wouldn't do that to another man. Most of these women are people I meet either through work or even through the apartment block I've moved into. My married male friends tell me I should be out there with a different woman every week, but it's not as simple as that. Sex is very important to me. At the moment, though, masturbation plays a very big part in my life.
"Sex is the icing on the cake"
Claire, 53, is a retired teacher. She is divorced and has two children aged 25 and 26. She has only ever had one lover, her former husband.
I am a Christian and have never believed in sex before marriage, but I lost my virginity when I was engaged to the man who is now my ex-husband. I had the mumps and was in bed and he forced himself upon me, and broke my hymen. I bled considerably. I said to him. 'I'm no longer a virgin, I can't marry you' but he insisted that it was OK as we had hardly done anything at all. I fell pregnant on my honeymoon, so I have never really known what it's like to be with a husband or a lover and not to either be pregnant or to have children. My two children arrived quickly so I was effectively pregnant for the first two years of my married life.
My ex husband wasn't a very considerate lover. To me, sex is important in a relationship, the icing on the cake, if everything else is in place. But I found sex quite difficult with him. We would make love and I would be just starting to feel very aroused and he would roll over and go to sleep. He wouldn't even hold me in his arms afterwards and we weren't sure how to relieve my sexual tension. Well, if he knew, he didn't do it, in any case.
My husband went to Thailand a few years ago, came back and announced that he was moving into a unit on his own. A supposed Christian, he is now married to a Buddhist. I do miss sex but I have never read anything that says masturbation is not allowed. If I were to marry again, it would only be with a man who took the time to know me mentally, emotionally and spiritually first. I still believe that sex should be reserved for marriage. It's one of God's greatest gifts.
"I'm very open to another, more serious relationship"
Craig, 27, is a manager at a CD and video manufacturing company. He is single and has had about 30 lovers.
Being single, I miss having regular sex, but I'm not particularly interested in one-night stands. I'm never really sure what to say afterwards. Do you get their phone number or just say thanks and goodbye or what? There are too many barriers which come up when you've had sex with someone you don't really know. So I suppose I aim to meet someone I get on with, as well as whom I'm attracted to. I'm pretty wary because I've had sexual problems in the past. I was with a girl for four years. For the first three, we had sex two or three times a day, whenever we felt like it basically.
It was very important to her. After that, work pressures really started to get to me. I was stressed out 24 hours a day, and for a while I couldn't get an erection. In the end, we didn't have sex for about eight months. She was very understanding but I wasn't sure if it was happening because of the work stress or because our relationship was deteriorating. I couldn't talk to her about it. I was also paranoid that if I talked about it with her she'd go off and tell her mates. We ended up breaking up, but not just because of that. Now I've changed jobs and everything's working fine again. I recently had an affair with a beautiful woman who's unfortunately gone back to live in Paris. It was just two weeks, but it was pretty intense. I'm very open to another, more serious relationship now.
"Sex is very important"
Paul, 28, works in real estate. He has no children, has never married and has just finished a two-year relationship. He has had between 25 and 30 lovers.
The best sex I've ever had was with a woman I met in England earlier this year. It was non-stop for weeks. It was so good I've decided to go back there and live there. What was really excellent is that this English girl and I are both really into body piercing. I've got a Prince Albert (a piercing through the penis) and my nipples done. It makes the sensations during sex better for both you and your partner.
To an extent, I see sex as a recreational activity that's best in a secure relationship. I don't have any hang-ups that I know about. I'm careful about getting too involved too quickly though. I think sex is so personal that you open up to someone a lot when you sleep with them.
"I needed three husbands"
Maggie, 77, has been married and divorced twice. Her sexuality blossomed after her second divorce when she was 52 and she has had more than 20 sexual partners since.
I was married twice. The first time I was 22; the second time I was 30. Looking back, marrying young was probably caused by the fact that my mother died when I was 20 and my father remarried eight or nine months after. I think I was lonely and looking for someone to love.
I divorced. I had one of the first constructive desertions in Victoria. The person I married wasn't the person I thought I'd married. There was a whole tissue of lies, and physical harassment came into it. I couldn't talk to anyone about it back in the 1940s. I knew virtually nothing about sex. And I think I was fortunate I didn't have a very high sex drive. I was a virgin when I married through a combination of morals and fear. Fear of the unknown and fear of pregnancy.
With my first divorce, I remarried practically as soon as it came through, but I'd known my second husband for quite some time. You wouldn't believe it though; he had terrible trouble with premature ejaculation. That wasn't his fault; that was my fault because I was frigid. Even now, with what we know he would never have thought of going to a doctor. I didn't worry about it terribly much. I just got on with life. He was very interested in his business life and he wasn't very interested in home life - although he was charming company, delightful, good looking. Before we were married we were in love but then the circumstances were right. Then it all changed. He kept himself going by putting me down. We separated in 1973.
I was 52 when we separated. I met a man while I was married who has been such a marvellous mentor, who gave me all the encouragement in the world. But he didn't live near me. That developed into a wonderful relationship even if we only saw each other twice a year. That's when I found out that, yes, I did have a lot of sexuality. Being with a sensible man who treated me well. You can't be treated badly all day and get into bed at night ...
Men used to sow their wild oats and I thought it's about time I learnt something. So I did and I thoroughly enjoyed it. I had no guilt at all. It was basically a physical thing. I was very choosy, but it was basically a physical thing. Most of them were people I met a lot on holidays. I've travelled a lot. I went overseas for a couple of years after the divorce was through. I leased the house here and went overland to Europe and lived there for two years.
If I'd had the right man, I would've been happy. I think I needed three husbands. One for bed, one to bring the money home and one for mental stimulation. I'd only remarry if someone would give me a house in a vicinity like this (near the beach), but preferably where I could see the sea without having to go out to the front gate. I'm not interested in just doing someone's washing for them.
"I never had any desire to be unfaithful"
Robert, 70, has been married for 46 years. He is a retired musician and has three children.
We went together for five years and we were engaged in the February of the year we were married. I was 23. We both lived at home. We didn't have sex before we were married, because of fear of pregnancy.
I admired my wife from the time I first saw her. We went about it with a more long-term approach. You went into marriage with a commitment and you felt you had to be relatively stable in many ways. Certainly financially and morally.
I don't know that we communicated that much; but the desire to marry, the commitment to one another (were there). In all honesty, I've never thought of saying, 'This is enough. I'm out of this.' There have been times when I've been pooped and there are still times, even to this day, when I've turned on the ice treatment. And, if you ask Jean, I'm sure she'd say there are times when she could have well turned her back and walked away.
The most difficult times were when I was very involved in establishing our home and our future. I was industrious; I worked hard. There were many times when I'd be out trying to earn an extra pound, and my wife was home caring for one, two, three children. To this day, I give her the credit that they have all turned out to be good citizens.
I think we were a good team. I was never unfaithful. But on the bandstand, and in the public eye, there were tremendous opportunities put before you. A lot of my acquaintances went off their rails and destroyed their marriages.
Sex is the cement that binds a couple together but the real bond comes from family. I've never seen sex as everything.
* Not their real names
© 1997 The Sunday Age